Level 104
It is difficult to understand the nature of your complaint without seeing a specific example; but I would suggest that there can be more than one right way @codi
Aug 24, 2022
27
Level 1
Laracasts "TOO CONFUSING"
I am new to Laracasts and Laravel for that matter so I am in the process of taking one of your courses, however, the way the teacher is showing how to do things makes it very confusing.
For example, he will say this is what we want to do, so for example we can do it this way, and then he proceeds to set out some code, but then he says, but wait, it doesn't do this or that so let's try this, then he erases the previous code and puts up some more code and proceeds to show what it does or doesn't do. The he says, wait, there's a better way to do this to get that and again he erases the code he just put up and proceeds to put up different code. He does this again and again until I am tired of trying to figure out what is what.
I am of the opinion that when you are teaching someone how to do something, you teach them the right way right off the bat so they can learn what works. Now if at some time in the future, that individual decides to try something different and finds out it doesn't work, he will not be confused in the beginning by this and that. He will have been taught the right way to begin with and it would take less time for each lesson to begin with.
At least that way I would not get confused later trying to remember which way the teacher did the code that actually worked and which didn't, because I would know the right way from the start.
Level 1
@tykus There is no doubt there is more than one way to skin a cat, but I would suggest that in order to hold down the scratches you get when learning, learn the best way first!
Level 73
Did you start with this one?
Level 1
@Tray2 Yes, I did and I have now come back after trying unsuccessfully to learn Laravel from so many others here and there including Youtube and I actually made it to Episode 11 before his style of teaching blew me out of the water again. I spent two full days maliciously eyeballing my code that I had tediously typed in after continually stopping Episode 11 trying to find that one / or , or :: or anything that I had not put in or was in the wrong place to no avail. My script didn't work and I have finally quit this tom-foolerly. I'm done, however, I am in hopes that when and/or if they ever decide to do a Tutorial for Laravel 9, they use an instructor that doesn't continually type in lines of code and then go back and say well we could have done it this way and then after doing that, goes back and then retypes it all over again in a different manner. DONE!
Level 59
I am of the opinion that when you are teaching someone how to do something, you teach them the right way right off the bat so they can learn what works.
The whole point is to help illustrate that there often isn't a right way; just different ways of doing things.
Also, the thing you are complaining about is how you will approach every bit of code you write in the future. "Let's try it like this. But - oh wait, we also need it to do XYZ - so let's tweak things a bit to allow for it."
8 likes
Level 1
@JeffreyWay When teaching something new to a newbie, you don't teach 10 different ways it can be done. The confusion that ensues is mind blowing and nothing is accomplished except the loss of a student who actually learned nothing in the end.
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Level 51
@jeffreyway, personally in the last three years I’ve learned a ton. And I love your style of teaching. Totally works. Don’t change a thing.
@codi i think the style and sentiment here is repetition. If you have to watch a video and write the code five times then that’s what it takes for you. Personally if you find a better way to learn how to code. Please comment back here.
I’d say I’m proficient at writing code. I know enough to be dangerous. I still watch the beginner videos and the advanced alike. And I’ll still catch new things that I never noticed before. Like native dialog tag 🤯
And I’d say for a long time coding was a pain in the ass. Very frustrating. But after 20 years of it, I don’t just love what is possible. I love the process. It just took time.
Level 15
you teach them the right way right off the bat
because I would know the right way from the start
That's a contradiction when it comes to programming because there is no right way to do things. Sure we have best practices and different standards we follow but you'll rarely ever find a right way of doing things. Especially when it comes to software design where x can be done in n ways.
That's why I personally like Laracasts way of teaching, it's realistic. Laracasts doesn't just throw code on the screen and say, just do this it works. It teaches you not only working code but also the design decisions behind it. That IMHO is a great way to teach because it gets you thinking about problems and shows you how to go about solving them.
3 likes
Level 1
@thinkverse The right way to do something is the preference of the individual performing the effort, however, whether it is the best way or not isn't the question because that's how that individual prefers to do it. The difference is, that individual knows how to do it at least one way and so teach it one way and if the student, after learning that one way, decides they would like to venture forth and learn other ways, so be it, but now all at once!
Level 4
@codi I totally understand where you are coming from on this. I am dyslexic with severe ADHD. As a result, being given multiple options to accomplish one task can lead to substantial confusion, frustration, and make me feel like I will never understand.
Don't feel defeated, and don't feel bad.
Over the years, I have learned how I like to do something. Example: When i am working with a model, I like to use the
protected $fillable = [
'database_field1',
'database_field2'
]
approach. I like to explicitly allow, implicitly deny. This comes from my history as a Sysadmin. @jeffreyway prefers the
protected $guarded = []
approach. Implicitly allow, explicitly deny.
By showing both methods, you learn what is available to you. Choose your preferred method, and make it a part of your personal coding style. I was really excited today when I was able to ID who made a site purely based on their code. Their code isn't wrong. In fact, it is quite efficient. It is just unique.
My advice is one of two things:
-
When shown multiple methods, pick the one that @jeffreyway and the Laracasts team ultimately go with until you find your preference. This will make following along MUCH easier, as when you debug; you are literally seeing the same code. Eventually you will find your style.
-
Other instructors - I hate to direct someone away from Laracasts (sorry @jeffreyway) but a couple outstanding alternatives are Edwin Diaz with Coding Faculty (https://codingfaculty.com/) or Alex with CodeCourse (https://codecourse.com). I first learned PHP and Javascript from Edwin's classes on Udemy, and I think he does a wonderful job of getting you the basics. He puts an emphasis on the positive emotional state needed for learning complex topics (this was very helpful for me).
When I was ready for more advanced topics I moved over to Laracasts and CodeCourse. I now have a lifetime subscription to both services. Having both services provides me a great advantage. When I struggle with a concept on one system, I go to the other. Every instructor has their individual teaching methods. Sometimes I pick up some concepts better depending on the approach. I have found great value from both services. Returning to the other service, for that same concept once I feel strong with it; strengthens my knowledge and helps me find my way of doing things.
Eventually will have your own style. As long as you follow best practices, it isn't wrong. It your way.
Level 1
@ryanak Again, too confusing when he keeps saying we could do it this way but this other way is better and much cleaner, then says but don't worry, in Episode so-in-so I will teach you the best way!
Level 75
@codi look at it like learning welding there are straight Beads and there are weave beads both are fine, so if I was teaching welding I could show weave first then I could say but wait there's another technique.
Jeffrey is simply showing another technique at times.
In actuality there could be 100 techniques of how to accomplish the same thing in programming.
I would just suggest to anyone, just relax learn the one technique and when he demonstrates another relax and learn that technique.
And a good thing about a video is you can back up and replay portions.
Level 1
@jlrdw You are right, we are talking about an individual making an effort to teach others how to do something, but let's step back from welding and go way back. When it comes to learning Laravel, I basically like a first grader on his first day in math class . With that in mind, you might start with 1+1=2 and 2+2=4 ...right? You wouldn't then jump to what is 1/3 of 2+2-3x5 divided by 5 or would you. I need to know the exact, straight forward basics first, then when I have a handle on it, you can move on and teach me something else.
I really do like the fact that he is so knowledgeable, but I think that might be part of the problem. I do not mean to in anyway insult anyone, however, I am quite knowledgeable in a particular subject myself, and I learned long ago if you ring your bell too loud around less learned individuals, you are considered a show off.
Level 4
Bro. I totally get it. i have been there too. here's a hack. watch each course twice.
Level 1
@successdav As I said, I tried that but could not get any further than episode 11 before code went to hell in a hand basket and for the life of me, I could not determine what happened for I repeated episode 11 2 more times and the same thing happened at the same place so, I will have to look further somewhere else for the knowledge I need to finish a project I have been working on for since the beginning of the CHINA VIRUS on set. Thanks though.
Level 73
@codi Sounds to me like you need the real basic course on php, before you watch the Laravel ones.
1 like
Level 1
@Tray2 Thanks, but PHP isn't my problem, it's knowing how to use it with Laravel. Thanks for the thought though. Also, that course is taught by the same instructor, and he was my problem to start with.
Level 73
@codi Then I suggest you go somewhere else to learn, Jeffrey does almost all the courses on Laracasts, and if you don't like his style teaching...
You can always check out @PovilasKorop - Laravel Daily courses
Level 1
I figured that sooner or later someone would tell me to get lost rather than hear and acknowledge the validity of my complaint. No problem. Thanks for you assistance and have a nice life
Level 102
@codi sounds like you expected @jeffreyway to suddenly change his teaching style so it fits better with how you learn. But that is most likely never going to happen. Personally I love his way of teaching and much prefer being shown several ways of doing things. @tray2 simply said that perhaps it was worth a shot checking out some of the other tutors that teach laravel, and even gave an example
No one is telling you to leave. But as I said, the way the material is taught will most likely not change
1 like
Level 15
@codi that's a rather ingenuine statement. No one told you to get lost. @tray2 suggested this since you yourself stated that @jeffreyway teaching style was the problem you had. Given Way teaches most courses on Laracasts - it's his company, you'd probably have a better experience on another platform.
Patrik (Tray) even provided you with a link to another platform where the teacher might be more suitable for you and your way of learning. There are more places to learn Laravel apart from Laracasts, CodeCourse also exists, and LinkedIn Learning even has a few courses on Laravel.
2 likes
Level 17
@thinkverse Jeffrey and Andre do a fantastic job for me.
1 like
Level 1
@thinkverse @codi Then I suggest you go somewhere else to learn WHAT DOES THAT SOUND LIKE TO YOU?
Level 15
As a non-native English speaker, like Patrik, exactly what it says? A suggestion. Since you yourself expressed a problem that cannot be solved easily or at all, he provided a potential solution.
Level 1
@thinkverse Before I answer your reply, know that I am being facetious, and since you are a non-native English speaker, I have included a definition of the word "facetious" = (definition "treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant.")
With that in mind, see how this statement makes you feel.
Since you are a non-native English speaker and obviously do not truly understand the intricacies = again here, I have included a definition of the word( intricacies "details, especially of an involved or perplexing subject. plural noun: intricacies") I suggest you go elsewhere to practice your language skills!
Since that is close to what was said to me, do you still feel the true meaning of the statement was just a nice "SUGGESTION" and that it wasn't especially telling you to go away?
You tell me how it made you feel!
This will be my last post to you or anyone else on this forum. I would like to leave peacefully as my only purpose, to begin with, was to explain that even though the instructor was great in every aspect of his delivery except for being confusing in his manner of instructing by introducing code and then saying, but let's make it better, then erasing what was just introduced and presenting another snippet of code only to then repeat the same erasure of that code and introduce yet another way of doing the same thing.
Again I state when teaching how to do something, math to a 1st grader for example, it is best to stick to the basics to hold down the confusion at least until they have a solid grasp of the concept before moving on to other manners of doing the same thing.
'Nuff said, have a nice day, and good luck with your language skills
Level 59
@codi I think we got it. Good luck to you. Hope you find a teacher who better fits your preferred learning style. 👍
3 likes
Level 11
I sincerely understand your problem and at times I've suffered the same. What I've come to find out is that the problem is not in the teaching style but in the learning style.
How come? Well, learning is more than getting from A to Z.. It has steps and I think that @jeffreyway emulates those steps very well in his teaching.
Take the time to process the information and understand how it got from A to Z going through B,C,D, etc...
I think you should stay because it's worth learning in this platform. Give it the time and patience.
1 like
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