Oh, and if the built in auth is so easy to implement why are forums flooded with auth questions.

because people come to the framework with their new project in mind. They install the framework and the first thing in their head about writing an application is that "I need users to login". Instead of using what is there and then coming back to it later they decide to re-engineer it, without yet knowing what they are doing.

@jlrdw Laziness? You're just a few more framework agents away from getting lynched. In Laravel's case, there isn't much benefits besides the auth (if it works). PHP isn't a verbose language anyway. The function names are pretty short and method names for their OOP paradigm are intuitively sane. Compare that with C#. I wrote an article on this in a not too distant past. The only tangible benefit from that earlier URL I agree with is maintainability. The rest of what they offer can be written in a few lines. But that's not why we're here.

@snapey easy there. You're starting to come off as brutishly skewed. The entry point of most applications is the login channel. Intuitively that's where you progress from into the innards of the program. If your auth isn't working, how then do you test alternate markup or similar functionality?

Long story short:

I came from enterprise Java (Mid size trucking co.), (wrote logistics software) to PHP. Why, semi retired now and started maintaining a site for a humane society who already had php.

With that said, most large enterprise has custom code, including authorization, roles, etc.

All I was trying to tell the OP is that laravel doesn't force anyone to use the built in auth.

And in my opinion, many php frameworks keep adding more and more stuff because many so called developers don't have a clue how to handle it on their own any more. They expect more and more to be built in.

TAKE NOTE I said in my opinion, I did not say fact.

I like my auth, but I am not saying laravels is bad or good, use it or don't use it. Taylor doesn't force any thing on anybody, which is why I like laravel.

because people come to the framework with their new project in mind. They install the framework and the first thing in their head about writing an application is that "I need users to login"

Exactly right, when in real life they should have programming security training already.

New programmers should not start with laravel until 6 months at least of the basic training, a year would be even better.

I would not hire an electrician who called themselves an electrician with only one day on the job, I want one who has completed the FOUR YEAR apprenticeship and has become a journeyman electrician.

Ditto for programmers.

Good news. Can we rendezvous outside Laracast? I'm eagerly looking to spread my wings towards usable Java. Be it enterprise or what have you. I could use some insights and discussions to remain in the loop. What say thee??

@nmeri17 I haven't touched java (was jsp and servlets and beans) in over 11 years, like I said I am semi retired now, doing smaller sites in php. I recently did an accounting site. Mainly income and expenses, for monthly reports that accountant will get at year end.

One headache I will never forget is setting up a tomcat server for development. There was no one button installer for it.

But I find that PDO is very similar to JAVA. I was asked for quick example once, see https://laracasts.com/discuss/channels/vue/love-vuejs-seriously?page=2

That was just done quick and dirty, no security. Page 2 of that post.

OOP paradigms are the same everywhere. I finished the Java text I was studying and kept wondering if it was the same language people moan about. But that was because I've done stuff with OOP PHP. My problem (I think) with Java is my laziness (tsk) to master the method names and what library is in what package. I need a lot more projects that would screw me over in it but I've been too lazy lately. I think since the Laravel saga, I've been shook.

Netbeans ide hints on what import is missing. But remember netbeans even though it works with PHP was originally a big Java thing. I don't know if Eclipse does the same or not.