@ohffs What happens if Taylor has to take off from this planet all of a sudden? Will Laravel be taken care by anyone else?

There are > 1000 contributors to laravel. Taylor is the originator and main driver - but there are plenty of other people working on the framework.

I see there is 365 contributors as of today Jul/8/2016. But how could we know if there is any contingency plan or something like that. If there is an official guy or group of people to take over the place. It would be good if @TaylorOtwell can answer us. :)

@JillzTom Taylor stated it would be @JeffreyWay https://www.reddit.com/r/laravel/comments/3bewjn/what_happens_to_laravel_if_taylor_otwell_is/csljobh

I really think you're worrying about this too much. You've got the source code to laravel - if Taylor decides to throw it all in and move to a desert island, what is the outcome? Your code still works, you can still install new projects, people can still contribute to move the framework forward. If you start to worry about this kind of thing you'll never finish - it's a bottomless hole.

If Taylor handed it over to Jeffrey - what if Jeffrey gets hit by a bus?! What if the next person catches fire?! What if what if what if...

If it was some little library on github that had one contributor - then yeah, maybe don't bet your whole business on it but that's not the case here in the slightest. There are way, way, way bigger risks for a project than choosing to use a hugely popular open-source framework like Laravel.

I have used Laravel on small £2000 projects to bigger £10k plus projects with no issues, I now work in a legal firm that uses Laravel for all our systems, both customer facing and all our backend stuff and we are a multi million pound company, so need I say any more......

@ohffs lol! I'm not the one who's concerned about these questions. I was being asked by my colleagues. So I wanted to get multiple opinions.

Worrying about whether the originator of an open-source project is really not a concern. The advantage of open-source is just that - if you had to, you could obtain the source code and support it yourself. It is actually a smaller risk than leveraging a commercially available framework, and then the company that supports it deciding they are sunsetting it. You are then forced to move off that product, because you dont even have the option of obtaining the source code and maintaining yourself.

@JillzTom get some new colleagues ;-)

@ohffs lol ;)

Your boss doesn't know what's he talking about. Active Record is design pattern, not a class you can test or inherit. Eloquent is an ORM that uses Active Record and is easily testable. You can easily create an abstract base model which can be inherited by your Eloquent models. Global variables are bad because they're global, not because the slow down your application. I haven't seen any abuse of globals in Laravel. If your code works now it will work a year from now so not sure why he thinks you'll be rewriting it.

Could possibly be rewriting code because of drastic changes in laravel not necessarily in PHP. As stated above Java has longer backwards compatibility and it's MVC out of the box.

The chances of drastic changes in a product that is at version 5.x + is relatively low. IMHO

Could possibly be rewriting code because of drastic changes in laravel not necessarily in PHP. As stated above Java has longer backwards compatibility and it's MVC out of the box.

You keep talking about Java and it's backward compatibility.. no offense dude, but frankly I don't think anybody cares. :)

Apparently the OP colleagues care which was the point of the thread. I mean if they don't like laravel use another technology.

I heard the new Codeigniter version 4 will be good. It's a complete rewrite of the framework. It will probably be good! It won't use Eloquent and their code will probably be testable and well designed like we all want it to be!

The only thing you have to do if the code changes drastically (it won't) is absolutely nothing. Your app will work exactly the same. If you want a framework that has no risk of change you'll have to build it yourself.

If you want a framework that has no risk of change you'll have to build it yourself.

And even then it's likely going to change over time. :D

If you want a framework that has no risk of change you'll have to build it yourself.

And even then it's likely going to change over time. :D

Lol!

Ok, here is the best answer, laravel programmers are also experienced programmers, so to answer the question why experienced developers consider laravel as a poorly designed framework? Answer, they don't.

@jlrdw best answer yet!! You forgot the mic drop though.... Lol

@willvincent I told myself there won't be any breaking changes so feel pretty good about it! ;)

@moka Well in that case.. what could go wrong? :D

I don't think there's any huge difference between the PHP frameworks, it is sort of taste. I have had used Symfony for a very long time, It's such an amazing framework, especially version 4, I like its integration with Doctrine, UnitTest, etc... but it does not mean Laravel sucks (as many Symfony dev. thinks). Instead of spending the time to prove that a specific framework sucks, it's better to spend this time to learn something new.

Well there is a clear difference. Laravel is the very first and only "framework" that prints environment variables in debug pages... Very unique in any way. It's the exact reason why professional companies don't even consider using this framework...

@pdc thats such a naive comment.

@bugsysha You are free to think whatever you want, but have you considered people jumping from one framework to another for other reasons, like client requirement?

In general, people who criticize Laravel are the ones who come from Symfony and know Symfony. And what you are saying is that someone tries and fails to learn Symfony, then jumps to Laravel and says Symfony is better than Laravel. Makes no sense.

Also, most of the people who defend Laravel from this critics don't even know Symfony.

I know both, and I'm telling you Symfony is much more well designed than Laravel. Big time.

And please, leave Occam's razor aside. This is not theory modeling.

@davidr you are exact profile of the person I was describing. No one had issues with this reply for 3 years and now you come along and say how it doesn't make sense cause you think that you are smarter than others.

Since you've failed that basic logic that I've wrote, or my English is super bad, let me try to clarify things for you so they make sense.

When I've wrote that post/reply, I was at my third job/company where we used Symfony. So I came from Symfony world and I'm very proficient with it (or was at that time) since Laravel jobs were not that common. And at that point I didn't criticise Laravel but tried to figure out everything before I could allow my self something like that. I advise you do the same if you haven't already.

What I was saying is that someone who think he is smarter than others came to Laravel and tried it. He failed to go deep with it/learn it/understand it. That is why that person switched to Symfony since it didn't receive the hate as Laravel. And they think that now they can come and give lectures to Laravel people just cause Symfony is hip and Laravel has bad design and they are using Symfony. Key point in my post is that they can not learn any of them. So they use Symfony just cause of the "great design" and have something to trash, just like Android users.

I've never met Apple/Laravel user that goes to Android/Symfony communities and trashes their choices, but that is something very common the other way around. I can only guess that they are not smart enough and want to hide behind popular opinion and call others sheep or what ever.

I know both, and I'm telling you Symfony is much more well designed than Laravel. Big time.

If you really think this than you haven't scratched under Laravel's surface at all.

And please, leave Occam's razor aside. This is not theory modeling.

LOL 🤦🏻‍♂️

Best of luck to you. Just hope you never become someone who decides for other people with that sadistic oppressive mindset.

Personally I don’t pay any credence to someone who’s only contribution is to slam one framework in favour of another

@snapey You are right. I should have kept my mouth shut.