envoyer.io forge ???

Forge is great for building up new servers.

Envoyer is optimized for deploying your apps with absolutely zero downtime. It'll be fantastic.

spoiler : here I'm going to ask Avery very stupid questions :

1. So why not Combine between them to one Service ?

2. The end of the process ,the end result will be the same regardless of the service I chose to use,

But the way be different ?

More money :P joke, not sure. I haven't used Forge but it's probably better with it stand alone (if additional features outside of Laravel want to be added).

Jeffrey is correct. Envoyer doesn't build servers, it just deploys with zero-downtime to multiple servers in parallel.

It is not a part of Forge because not everyone who wants zero-downtime deployment also needs to build servers via Forge, so it doesn't make sense to tightly couple them in that way.

@TaylorOtwell will there be an option within Forge to use Envoyer or vice-versa, the two appear from the outside to be very similar.

@JeffreyWay @TaylorOtwell

It smells like a revolution in the air ....

They really aren't similar at all. Forge manages sub-domains, Nginx, Cron jobs, SSL certificates, queue daemons, recipes, etc. Envoyer does none of those things. Envoyer is solely focused on deploying PHP applications to multiple servers with zero downtime.

@TaylorOtwell they both "manage" your application and help you to reply it. Forge provisions the servers and Envoyer deploys it to multiple servers. Just a thought but as a Forge user it would make sense to me for the two to be synonymous.

@TaylorOtwell what about migrations? Some deployments require database migrations did you solve it? Some alters of tables take time I guess this is not the case if we have to run migrations and some seeders.

In Theory: developers who don't use Forge on VPS (like DigitalOcean) OR do not sitting up server properly(like not doing server updates) , Could use Envoyer and the code itself will be perfect ! But server's security issues and bugs ,could eventually Damage to reputation of Laravel (indirectly).

So I think to all of us who don't server experts.@TaylorOtwell Please consider add some very very basic server features on Envoyer.io

I am REALLY excited about Envoyer. I tried Forge and figured out pretty quickly that I didn't need it. I kept my subscription going for like 3-4 months just to throw a few bucks Taylor's way because Laravel is so freakin awesome and useful. But then I eventually canceled Forge. I just don't provision servers very often, and when I do I am insanely particular about how it's done, and I much prefer to do it all manually. However, deployment has always been a pain point for me. I do it a lot more often, and it always seems like a chore. Envoyer seems like the perfect solution for me. I will definitely become a subscriber.

I've just been looking into Envoyer today actually and stumbled across this thread. Would a fair summary be:

• Forge: Spinning up servers and making server administration (SSL keys/SSH access for example) easy. Yes you can also trigger automatic deployments but no '"no downtime" feature and deployment complexity is limited. You'll probably rely on integrations with papertrail/new relic and some alerting features on those services for monitoring
• Envoyer: Strictly deployments. Ensuring your site has zero downtime during deployments, provides monitoring, health checking and easy rollbacks if everything goes horribly wrong - probably more suitable for more "serious" (enterprise/high traffic) sites where downtime is costly but deployments are frequent and more complex than pull, migrate, composer install

Is that about right?

Pretty much.

I'm using both for a project that I'm working on at the moment, I will say this: if you're in doubt about their utility, spend a few hours setting something up (and it will only be a few hours). Afterwards you'll see your deployment time shrink massively.

It will definitely save you more than enough time to justify the cost.

@TaylorOtwell Could you imagine a Envoyer integration with Laravel in the future? Could be pretty darn cool.

@canfiax heah? How should Envoyer be integrated in laravel?