What's your opinion about what Rasmus said

He is 100% correct. Even though now with good cache things have improved. But hands down no framework will never outdo a regular old php pdo query. In fact eloquent and querybuilder convert at runtime to regular sql.

Frameworks have gotten over inflated. The reason is users want more and more and more instead of writing some of the stuff themselves.

See my reply here https://laracasts.com/discuss/channels/laravel/yet-another-verifycsrf-token-issue I write my own csrf routine.

But I like laravel because it's flexible and optional things are not forced on you.

Example I do use querybuilder, and even the orm for some things. But for more complex queries I use regular pdo via getPdo().

Bottom line the way Taylor made it a flexible to use framework is why I like it and the community is great and helpful.

Edit: Even @Snapey is alright, haha

thx @jlrdw for your in-depth opinion.. hope to hear from more for that debate … I will reensure that The best thing of Laravel is ( The community).

To follow up if laravel was truly expected to be an Enterprise ready framework it would also come with several years of backwards compatibility. Think about one thing you have just spent $178,000 for an Enterprise Logistics warehousing system now do you want to have to upgrade every 6 months.

Again most Java Technologies are around ten years backwards compatibility that's why you see large Enterprise use Java technology such as JSP and servlet Technology usually with spring and hibernate.

In fact I did some tests one day and some of the code I wrote roughly 12 years ago still executes and works fine in the latest java-ee spec. That's not to say that some things wouldn't need an update such as password Hashing as even that has changed in PHP over the years.

But with that said laravel is right at the top of the PHP Frameworks because of its flexibility not it's frills. A customer front end online shop may need some of those frills but a large Enterprise logistic system doesn't have time to mess with all the other stuff, they are more interested in hard core data basing.

I have seen with some Enterprise will use Java Technologies for their heavy-hitting stuff but for a front end portal they may even use PHP there. Many Enterprise enbrace several Technologies not just one.

The main problem with laravel is some want to call it enterprise ready. But without longer backward compatibility it cannot be enterprise. Like ver 5.5 will only support php 7 +. That's not how the enterprise World works.

The bad thing for laravel also, php itself has longer backward compatibility. They actually did a good job with php 7 to ensure that most code from php 5.6 still works.

It's worth noting that the talk was actually from 2013. Some of Rasmus's complaints have already been addressed by frameworks like Symfony and Laravel.

Of course, you'll always get better performance the closer you get to bare-metal programming. It's a trade-off. For most projects -- but not all! -- frameworks are a sensible level of trade-off.

Also there are two Worlds.

• Companies / people needing a dynamic site NOT large Enterprise
• Large Enterprise

I haven't seen one programmer from

• CH Robinson
• JB HUNT
• FEDEX
• UPS
• Landstar Transportation
• Werner Global Logistics
• Swift Transportation

Just to name a few, but no one from these posting here or cakephp forum.

Why?

These large enterprise companies have custom in house code.

Or they have vendors who provide support for them. Or they are not using PHP. Or a million other reasons not come to this forum for support. Didn't the talk start saying "Every needs a framework".

Just depends on how you define framework and who built your framework. My experience from working at an enterprise level company, not as an app developer mind you, is that you have a mixture of frameworks, vendors, and languages.

Everything gets massaged to what the business needs.

@sbcman74 I agree, modern large enterprise will leverage all of the technologies, including php. Just most of their code is specialized and many times "in house".

I also worked at a trucking co, did the logistics software, but not as big as the Big Enterprise. But java is what I used. Php came along later for a humane society site, they had a good deal, low budget, so I learned php. Custom framework at first, then I stumbled on Laravel 4.2. Then came ver 5.1 which I love.

It just all turned out like that. Who knows if I could have chose what to use for them, I may have never took up php, but glad I did. It just makes so much more sense for a medium to small site.