Having doubts with the Laracasts series steps

Published 1 week ago by dannys

So i am creating this discussion because there is something i would love to get cleared in my head.

It is about the Laracasts series steps, i assume that the steps were made so that you follow each one in the asceding order 1, 2, 3 etc. in all of the series, be it laravel or php, i have now completed something like 15 series here in Laracasts, i came as complete beginner.

As i keep progressing and going to the advanced level tutorials, regardless if i understand any of it, i feel it is a little bit pointless because of my non existant project experience, like i will forget it all in the next few days since i am not realy applying anything.

For example, i am watching the Whip Monstruous Code Into Shape series, there is the consider use cases, god objects that i watched so far, but shoulnd't there be a step on Laracasts that consists on building one or two projects first, and then moving on to these tutorials where you can apply these techniques in real life? I know we got some projects here in laracasts, but none of them are included before these php steps and most of them are old and archived, except for the Let's Build a Forum with TDD.

Are the steps order badly structered? Am i actualy going along the right path? I almost feel like i started from the wrong website, like i should have gone to a more beginner friendly website, even though i still learned a lot from the beginner php series, Jeffrey did a good job on those, like php practitioner, oop and command line apps. These questions have been in my mind since like after i finished the Laravel from scratch series, after that i keep questioning if what i have been doing here in Laracasts is appropriate for me or any guy like me.

I find intermediate level tutorials, to cover topics that would only be useful to someone with a project in hands.

Best Answer (As Selected By dannys)
SebMatte

@dannys Well, I don't know yet what we can do with the TDD forum before learning and then reusing ;

About the question ' which projects should be built with Frameworks ' , if you look at the ' services ' link you shared, in the projects, notice how most of them have pretty much the same basic 'frames / structural ' needs ? Authentification, admin & users & permissions, CRUD and categories and correct billing / invoicing / accounting management, wether it's courriers, garbage, cattle management, etc..

Looking at raw PHP versus using Laravel, I'm glad to learn raw SQL, authentification and all that but I already can see how repeatedly coding all those aspects projects after projects would become somewhat repetitive and then my own efficiency would be limited by that.

In the construction business this would be analogous to cutting, seasoning & planning each wood beam vs buying some already up to specs from the shop and then using them to build what you are actually looking forward to build, with the most efficiency and economy of time.

So yeah, I feel like * almost all * projects should be built with framework if you don't like to constently reinvent the wheel ? At our levels, why would you not want to use a framework like Laravel, while yes understanding the fondational PHP ? :-)

bobbybouwmann

Well you basically answer your own question here. You need to start doing projects where you can apply everything you learned so far. It's recommended to start a small project like a todo-list or a simple blog. After that when you understand more and more you can start building biggers things like a forum or an API etc.

Think of the Laravel tutorials as extra building blocks for your knowledge. You already watched some videos that might be too high for you right now, but since you watched them they will be in the back of your head. When you see a problem or you need to do something that you already saw in one of those videos you know how you can do it. If you forgot it you can find the video of course since you already watched it before ;)

Robstar
Robstar
1 week ago (45,900 XP)

I've come across several. i.e. https://laracasts.com/series/build-project-flyer-with-me - a couple of years old but it's good to watch if you're learning.

There is little point in just watching videos if you're not going to apply those principals afterwards - at the very least try to get the examples from the videos running on your own machine.

If you're struggling there are lots of beginner series available. i.e. https://laracasts.com/series/object-oriented-bootcamp-in-php and https://laracasts.com/series/php-for-beginners

dannys
dannys
1 week ago (18,550 XP)

Thank you for answering and clearing it out.

But the main question still stands, Jeffrey Way has tagged each course with the steps number, shouldnt he changed that and put some projects in the middle of it? Right now i am just feeling a bit overwhelmed with the "bigger things" like how am i supposed to get on that level with simple projects.

And yes @bobbybouwmann that stuff i watched so far is in the back of my head, plus through each step, Jeffrey just picks up stuff he talked about before and mentions some kind of practise about it, like jobs, events, listeners, broadcasting, authorization etc. I have heard those terms like 3-4 times before, i just want to see real life examples. I just have no idea how i can build a project big enough to apply a lot of the stuff Jeffrey explained. I am just affraid that "being in the back of my head" won't be of any value, since right now i don't realy know where to go.

@Robstar, those beginner series are as clear as plain english to me at the moment, i am just having doubts about what kind of project i should build, if you guys could help me with that, would be great, or i might just open a new topic of sugestions about it or at least do some research first :)

travoltron

There are two answers I always have to the "what should I make first" question.

First, make a blog. It's the tried and true method for learning most frameworks. Plus, you can blog about the things that you're learning, as you're learning them. For every person who asks these questions, there's easily a dozen others who are asking the same exact things in their heads.

Second, think to things you'd like to have, or something you think you could do better.

For instance, I hate that there's no really easy Knowledge base as a service thats not tied to a full help desk suite. I don't want to pay for all that, I just really need a FAQ section that's easily editable. That's something to make.

Or maybe you wish Twitter sorted things by character count rather than date. Make a Twitter clone that does that.

Those are obviously not great examples, but you get the idea.

Build on, builder!

dannys
dannys
3 days ago (18,550 XP)

@travoltron I have already built a blog with Jeffrey with 5.4 from scratch, i am also starting to get comfortable and confident with the Php language. I am currently learning JS from a realy good course on Udemy, then i will move back here to Laracasts for Jeffrey's Vue.js courses.

What i seek to do is the Laracasts Forum project. And also a Php raw project, no framework. And then of course, pick up some real life application, and a restful API and just do it on my own! That is what i currently am researching for, i found some stuff, but i need to dig in to it.

Your sugestion is good, i thought about cloning facebook, but it just seems to have a little bit too much content and advanced programming.

But what do you mean with this "as a service thats not tied to a full help desk suite"?

SebMatte

@dannys Hello, I have a similar experience with being a beginner in actual programming so a couple of months ago I made a pause in Laracasts to get some basic knowledge in; I started by those books that I read back to back :

  • Laravel: Code Smart by Dayle Rees, to have an idea of the basic structure of the framework,
  • Laravel Up and Running by Matt Stauffer, to have a deeper understanding,

PHP Pandas was nice but somewhat the same generic basic book of ' what's a function, what's an array', there's tons of ressources along these lines.

Currently I'm working through a book on PHP 7 & Web applied development without a framework, you might like it :

  • Learning PHP 7, by Antonio Lopez, surprisingly practical :-)

And that course on Udemy is about 10 projects that are coded live in front of you, there are few explications of the 'why' but by then I'm starting to have an idea of what he's talking about and why :

  • Projects in Laravel: Learn Laravel Building 10 Projects, by Eduonix.

I listen also to tons of podcasts, I'm through with the Full Stack Radio, Laravel podcast, Laravel News, North meet South, almost done with Wes Bos's Syntax podcast for a Javascript / CSS overview, listening to Coding Blocks for in depth [ currently mostly over my head ] design patterns analysis and commentary, Startups for the Rest of Us, etc. I manage my own small business and help in another on the side, + tons of driving so those helps when I feel I'm not making enough progress with actual coding, I suggest listening to them to immerse yourself in the environment :-)

I also have a bunch of more advanced / specialized books that I keep for later like ' Build APIs You Won't Hate' ' SQL Queries You Won't Hate', + preparing to eventually get the online courses of :

  • serversforhackers.com by Chris Fidao
  • the testing course [much later.. ] by Adam Wathan
  • https://designacademy.io by Laura Elizabeth when she launches
  • refactoringui.com by Steve Schoger is great to keep an eye on :-)

I feel that a mix of ressources covering general overview, applied aspects , specific coding techniques and wider Laravel ecosystem & environment is creating a synergy of understanding for me.

I hope this helps you situate Laracasts in this whole environment and 'layers' :-) after those months of absorbing as much as I can of these other ressources finally everything here starts to make much more sense to me :-)

Yes, I would love something like a recommended ' Full Laravel Bootcamp from beginner to hired' and as it doesn't seem to be existing just yet, we have to make our own :-)

SebMatte

@travoltron Hello, by the way if you are searching for a wiki solution I've found and transitioned a team at one of my other works to https://shelf.io , there should be pretty much everything you would wish for and a free account for small teams, good organizational ability, possibility of public ressources with the private ones, good design and ongoing development. I've been researching for a while before finding them and now my team loves them :-) Hope this helps :-)

dannys
dannys
2 days ago (18,550 XP)

So right now i have made my mind and will proceed in this way.

I am just about to do my first Javascript project, but for the main thing, Php and Laravel, i will do a little course on Udemy to master raw Php, since Laracasts mainly focuses on Laravel and OOP.

After this i will build my first raw Php project, and i have found this website for project ideas http://services.lovelycoding.org/computer-science-project-ideas-final-year/ that also tells you what functionalities the Web App needs to contain.

But after i do this, then i will build the forum with TDD with Jeffrey.

@SebMatte What can we do with that website?

My only question right now is, wich projects should be built with Frameworks?

SebMatte

@dannys Well, I don't know yet what we can do with the TDD forum before learning and then reusing ;

About the question ' which projects should be built with Frameworks ' , if you look at the ' services ' link you shared, in the projects, notice how most of them have pretty much the same basic 'frames / structural ' needs ? Authentification, admin & users & permissions, CRUD and categories and correct billing / invoicing / accounting management, wether it's courriers, garbage, cattle management, etc..

Looking at raw PHP versus using Laravel, I'm glad to learn raw SQL, authentification and all that but I already can see how repeatedly coding all those aspects projects after projects would become somewhat repetitive and then my own efficiency would be limited by that.

In the construction business this would be analogous to cutting, seasoning & planning each wood beam vs buying some already up to specs from the shop and then using them to build what you are actually looking forward to build, with the most efficiency and economy of time.

So yeah, I feel like * almost all * projects should be built with framework if you don't like to constently reinvent the wheel ? At our levels, why would you not want to use a framework like Laravel, while yes understanding the fondational PHP ? :-)

dannys
dannys
1 day ago (18,550 XP)

@SebMatte Awesome clarification mate! Then that means most websites are like the project ideas from the website i linked? They have the same structural needs and basic frames? It is just the theme and client type that changes?

puzbie
puzbie
1 day ago (10,840 XP)

Just write stuff. The more you code, the better you get. Accept that your first efforts may well be crap, and make them better next time.

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